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‘Wild Card’: Poet Nikki Giovanni says she doesn’t dwell on accolades

VPM | By Rachel Martin

Published July 16, 2024 at 8:35 PM EDT

JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:

Each week, a well-known guest draws a card from our Wild Card deck and answers a big question about their life. Nikki Giovanni is one of America’s most admired poets. She’s won the NAACP Image Award seven times and was named by Oprah as one of 25 living legends. But Nikki mostly doesn’t dwell on those accolades, as she tells Wild Card host Rachel Martin.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

RACHEL MARTIN: One, two, three.

NIKKI GIOVANNI: OK, three.

MARTIN: Three. Do you think about the legacy that you will leave behind?

GIOVANNI: No.

MARTIN: Wow, I’m surprised by that answer.

GIOVANNI: Yeah. Yeah.

MARTIN: Huh.

GIOVANNI: You know, ’cause it gets you caught up in your life, and that’s not what your – your life is not about your life. Your life is about your duty. And so no, I don’t think about it, you know?

MARTIN: Have you seen people get too caught up in preemptively analyzing their legacy?

GIOVANNI: Oh, I’ve seen a lot. As I say, I know a lot of famous people, and they’re – oh, you know, I wonder what my stamp would look like. I’ll be dead, so it doesn’t matter. No, I’m serious.

MARTIN: Someone did not say that to you.

GIOVANNI: And – yeah.

MARTIN: Oh, wow.

GIOVANNI: And so you just – like, no. No. I’m just glad when me and cancer wake up – and now when me and cancer and pneumonia wake up. And one day we won’t. And I don’t know. Maybe I’ll be sad. Maybe not. I don’t know. It’s interesting. My friend, Toni Morrison, whom I do and still do love so very much – and my favorite Toni Morrison, among other things, is “Sula.” And when Sula is dying, she says, oh, wait till I tell Nel – ’cause Nel is her best friend. And she says, wait till I tell Nel it doesn’t hurt. Wait till I tell Nel.

MARTIN: Let me ask this question in a different way then, though. I get what you’re saying that you don’t want to get wrapped up in your ego. You don’t want to think about, you know, whoa, I’m so important. People are going to remember me. What are they going to write on my tombstone? What are they – all the great accolades they’re going to give me? But are there moments when you think back on your life and allow yourself moments to feel proud?

GIOVANNI: Oh, I – there are moments that I feel proud because I’ve worked hard. And I think the word that means – as you probably also have heard in this conversation – a lot to me is duty.

MARTIN: Yeah.

GIOVANNI: And when I went to the opening of the African American Museum in D.C…

MARTIN: Yeah.

GIOVANNI: …You go around and around. I certainly recommend anybody doing it. And I had forgotten because a lot of those things I don’t handle and I’m not interested in. I forgot we gave permission to use my poetry and gave permission to use my – and it’s not something – if you start paying attention to that, you’d be crazy.

MARTIN: Yeah. Yeah.

GIOVANNI: And when I turned to the right, there was a photograph of me. And I just automatically – and it brings tears to my eyes. I automatically just turned over my shoulder to my left to say, look, Grandmother, I did my duty. And – yeah. I – and that still amazes me that I did – I mean, I just – it’s like she was there. I did my duty. And that’s what matters to me.

SUMMERS: That’s poet Nikki Giovanni talking to NPR’s Rachel Martin. Hear more from that conversation by following the Wild Card podcast.

(SOUNDBITE OF LAURYN HILL SONG, “SWEETEST THING”) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

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Rachel Martin

Rachel Martin is a founding host of NPR's award-winning morning news podcast Up First. Martin's interviews take listeners behind the headlines to understand the people at the center of those stories.

She spent six years as a host of Morning Edition, and was previously the host of Weekend Edition Sunday for four years, where she launched the "For the Record" series.

Martin also served as National Security Correspondent for NPR, where she covered both defense and intelligence issues. She traveled regularly to Iraq and Afghanistan with Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and his successor Leon Panetta, reporting on the U.S. wars and the effectiveness of the Pentagon's counterinsurgency strategy. Martin also reported extensively on the changing demographic of the U.S. military – from the debate over whether to allow women to fight in combat units, to the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. Her reporting on how the military is changing also took her to a U.S. Air Force base in New Mexico for a rare look at how the military trains drone pilots.

Martin also worked as a NPR foreign correspondent based in Berlin from 2005-2006. During her time in Europe, she covered the London terrorist attacks, the election of Angela Merkel as Chancellor to Germany, the 2006 World Cup and issues surrounding immigration and shifting cultural identities in Europe.

Her foreign reporting experience extends beyond Europe. Martin has also worked extensively in Afghanistan. She began reporting from there as a freelancer during the summer of 2003, covering the reconstruction effort in the wake of the U.S. invasion. In fall 2004, Martin returned for several months to cover Afghanistan's first democratic presidential election. She has reported widely on human rights issues in Afghanistan, the fledgling political and governance system and the U.S.-NATO fight against the insurgency. She also reported from Iraq, where she covered U.S. military operations and the strategic alliance between Sunni sheiks and the U.S. military in Anbar province. She traveled to Saudi Arabi in 2015 to report on women's rights and in 2022 she reported from Ukraine's border with Belarus in the leadup to the Russian war.

Martin was part of the team that launched NPR's experimental morning news show, The Bryant Park Project, based in New York — a live two-hour daily multimedia program that she co-hosted with Alison Stewart and Mike Pesca.

In 2006-2007, Martin served as NPR's religion correspondent. Her piece on Islam in America was awarded "Best Radio Feature" by the Religion News Writers Association in 2007. As one of NPR's reporters assigned to cover the Virginia Tech massacre that same year, she was on the school's campus within hours of the shooting and on the ground in Blacksburg, Va., covering the investigation and emotional aftermath in the following days. In 2011, her story on racial discrimination in Hollywood won a Salute to Excellence Award from the National Association of Black Journalists and her series on the effects of the opioid epidemic on children won a Gracie award in 2019.

Martin started her career at public radio station KQED in San Francisco as a producer and reporter.

She holds an undergraduate degree in political science and an honorary doctorate from the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Wash. Martin also holds a Master's degree in international affairs from Columbia University.

She lives in Washington, D.C., with her husband and two sons.

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