LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Senator Rand Paul is threatening to hold the government’s former top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, in contempt of Congress.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
That, after yesterday on Capitol Hill, Paul and other Republican lawmakers asked Fauci about the origins of the COVID pandemic and berated him about the government’s response. Fauci invoked the Fifth Amendment over 100 times and didn’t answer.
FADEL: We have NPR’s Ari Daniel with the latest. Good morning, Ari.
ARI DANIEL, BYLINE: Good morning.
FADEL: So what exactly was this hearing about?
DANIEL: Well, Senator Paul subpoenaed Fauci to appear before the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Paul has argued for years that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab in China and says that Fauci, who helped lead the federal COVID-19 response, concealed this. Fauci strongly denies the accusation. He says the scientific evidence suggests the virus spilled over naturally from an animal into a human, and many virologists agree.
FADEL: OK. And how did yesterday’s hearing unfold?
DANIEL: As expected, Paul’s opening statement accused Fauci of funding the very research that may have helped engineer the virus. He encouraged Fauci to make a public apology.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
RAND PAUL: I hope today, Dr. Fauci, you will come clean – admit it was a mistake to fund dangerous research in China.
DANIEL: In his opening statement, Fauci said he believes Paul has a, quote, “unhinged obsession” with him.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ANTHONY FAUCI: The sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something, anything that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up, in his words, quote, “behind bars.”
DANIEL: After that opening statement, Fauci didn’t say anything else besides invoking the Fifth Amendment to every question – even the most benign, like what color tie he was wearing.
FADEL: Oh, wow. Fauci has testified a lot about these issues in the past. Why invoke his right against self-incrimination now?
DANIEL: Before President Biden left office, he granted Fauci a blanket pardon, covering him from 2014 through early 2025. But legal experts say Fauci could still be accused of perjury if, say, he said something at yesterday’s hearing that contradicted what he said in the past under oath. It’s worth noting that invoking the Fifth Amendment is not an admission of wrongdoing. Jennifer Mason McAward is a law professor at the University of Notre Dame.
JENNIFER MASON MCAWARD: Saying that you are protected by the Constitution is just something you’re entitled to do as a citizen of the United States.
FADEL: What happens next?
DANIEL: Paul has already said he plans to hold a vote next week on whether Fauci should be held in contempt of Congress. An affirmative vote could eventually lead to a fine, jail time or both.
FADEL: And what kind of longer-term impacts might this hearing have?
DANIEL: Right. So Georges Benjamin, the head of the American Public Health Association, told me that a hearing like this, combined with recent cuts to federal agencies – it all adds up to undermining public health in the U.S.
GEORGES BENJAMIN: We’re seeing it every day, right? The inability to respond effectively to hantavirus, measles, Cyclospora.
DANIEL: Benjamin says the need for educated and evidence-based health policy is more urgent than ever. Democratic Senator Andrew Kim said at yesterday’s hearing it may be harder to find people to do those things.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ANDREW KIM: These firing and these cuts – they’re creating a chilling effect, honestly. A chilling effect for the next generation of people who might consider stepping up to serve our nation.
DANIEL: Especially, he says, if they fear attacks like this.
FADEL: That’s NPR’s Ari Daniel. Thank you, Ari.
DANIEL: Thank you, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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