STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
When Pete Hegseth hosted a program at "Fox News," he had an attentive viewer - then-President Donald Trump. That led to outcomes that Hegseth advocated for like pardons for service members convicted of war crimes. Now, President-elect Trump has nominated Hegseth to serve as secretary of defense. So what beliefs about military justice does he bring to the table? Here's Steve Walsh for their member station WHRO in Norfolk.
STEVE WALSH, BYLINE: Back in 2019, "Fox News" host, Pete Hegseth wanted the president to overturn actions taken against U.S. troops accused or convicted of war crimes.
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PETE HEGSETH: We train these guys. They're the best of the best. We want to unleash them to go kill them and then if they make one tiny mistake...
WALSH: Two weeks before the president granted clemency to two soldiers and restored the rank of SEAL Chief Eddie Gallagher, Hegseth was on "Fox & Friends" saying President Trump told him what he was about to do.
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HEGSETH: Something goes wrong, then a lawyer in the Pentagon, based on some rules that were written in an air-conditioned offices is going to Monday-morning-quarterback them and say, you know what? That deserves 20 or 25 or 30 years to life.
WALSH: Butch Bracknell is a former Marine attorney who lives in Norfolk, Virginia. As a Judge Advocate General, he handled routine cases in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He says the president has the right to pardon someone, but his rationale didn't match the facts.
BUTCH BRACKNELL: If you look at the number of people we deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years versus a number of cases, it's infinitesimal.
WALSH: He says he's troubled by the idea promoted by Hegseth and others that troops on the ground were routinely prosecuted for things that happened in the heat of battle.
BRACKNELL: We did a lot of killing of people by accident. The question isn't, did we apply force and something bad happened? That's not how it works. Did you act in good faith? Were you following the rules? Were you doing the best that you could at the time?
WALSH: Bracknell says military juries are reluctant to second-guess decisions made in the field. In 2019, he followed the Gallagher case. Members of the SEAL's own platoon accused him of killing a wounded detainee. In a trial hampered by issues with the prosecution, Gallagher was acquitted of the most serious charges. The jury still found him guilty of posing for a picture with a knife to the neck of the dead fighter, which Gallagher sent to a friend with the text, got him with my hunting knife. After intense lobbying by Hegseth and others, Trump restored Gallagher's rank and halted a Navy hearing to decide whether he should be removed from the SEALs. Again, Butch Bracknell...
BRACKNELL: You either believe in the process you have designed and believe in the people that you trust and train to execute it, or you don't. And if you don't and you reach down in and start turning things, it's really hard to tell what adjustments you're making when someone reaches in from so far above.
WALSH: Tim Parlatore represented Gallagher in court and is the private attorney for Hegseth. He says President Trump was right to intervene.
TIM PARLATORE: If the Navy or the services are going to go out there and administer justice fairly, then the president doesn't have to step in. He stepped in in his role as the commander in chief because his subordinates had failed in their obligations.
WALSH: The president tweeted his intent as he did throughout his first term with very little documentation, says Scott Anderson, national security fellow with the Brookings Institution. The concern is that there will be even less transparency with Hegseth running the defense department in the second Trump administration, making it harder for troops and their commanders to understand the rules.
SCOTT ANDERSON: I think you do have to ask what the judgment is underlying that. These were cases where the key witnesses, particularly in the Gallagher case, were other service members, other Navy SEALs, people with phenomenal service records in their own rights, many of whom expressed huge reservations and concerns.
WALSH: The nomination hearings for Pete Hegseth are slated for early next year. For NPR News, I'm Steve Walsh. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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