SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The highlights from President Trump's visit to the Middle East this week were big business deals and lucrative contracts with Gulf countries. There was also a surprise, a meeting with Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa, the first time a Syrian leader met with a U.S. president in 25 years. In the meeting, Trump vowed to lift U.S. sanctions, though that decision would ultimately rest with Congress, and then he went further. He said Syria may even possibly recognize Israel as a sovereign state. To understand all of these complexities further, we are joined by NPR's Hadeel Al-Shalchi in Tel Aviv. Thanks for coming on the show.
HADEEL AL-SHALCHI, BYLINE: Of course.
DETROW: This was a surprise meeting. It was on the sidelines of Trump's trip. What all happened?
AL-SHALCHI: So Scott, can we actually just take a minute first? President Ahmed al-Sharaa is a man who once had a $10 million bounty on his head. You know, the U.S. used to say that this guy was a terrorist, and now the president of the United States is shaking his hand, so that this meeting even happened is just remarkable. So when they met, the White House said that Trump urged Sharaa to do three main things - get rid of all, quote, "foreign terrorists" from Syria, help the U.S. stamp out any resurgence of ISIS and to diplomatically recognize Israel. And after that, Trump announced that he vowed to lift the sanctions.
DETROW: I mean, like we said before, that would ultimately come down to Congress. But still, it's a remarkable statement from an American president. If they were lifted, what exactly would that mean for Syria?
AL-SHALCHI: I mean, Syria could just start to rebuild again. You know, those sanctions were seriously crippling and lasted more than two decades. And, you know, when I drove into Damascus a couple of days after Assad fell in December, I could really see the effects of the sanctions. The buildings are falling apart. So many cars are ancient because parts are unavailable. You know, we'd pay for coffee with these huge wads of cash because the currency meant nothing. So getting sanctions lifted was a huge win for Sharaa and one thing off his to-do list. He also has to prove to the world that his fighting days are over and that he can make Syria a stable part of the region. And that means also making peace with its neighbor, Israel.
DETROW: And Israel is a country that is deeply invested in this, as well. How is the response in Israel to these statements from Trump?
AL-SHALCHI: Well, Israel was kind of stunned when they heard that Trump vowed to lift the sanctions. Israeli media was reporting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was urging Trump not to. You see, Israel's line all along has been that Sharaa and his people are terrorists and that Israel must defend itself from them. Immediately after the fall of Assad in December, Israeli forces seized a buffer zone between the two countries that was set up in 1974, and then it also was bombing hundreds of military targets inside Syria. Lately, Israel has also been expanding past that buffer zone further into Syria and continuing its bombing campaign in and around Damascus.
But, you know, with all of that, Syria is still saying it wants peace with Israel. Sharaa has said it publicly many times. And, you know, just this past Wednesday, Syrian official spokesperson Ali Al-Rifai spoke to Kan News, Israel's public media network. Now, first of all, just the fact that a Syrian government official spoke to Israeli media is incredible. You know, it would have been unthinkable just six months ago. But Rifai said that Israel should retreat from Syrian territory and the buffer zone but that it's ready for peace.
DETROW: Well, when we talk about things that President Trump is promising, it's important to put in the context that, over the past decade, there have been so many big promises that would be groundbreaking that just never materialized. But still, what he's talking about in this meeting is a really big deal. He's talking about full normalization here.
AL-SHALCHI: I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, Trump said he told Sharaa in the meeting, I hope you'll join the Abraham Accords when Syria is ready. And according to Trump, Sharaa replied, yes. Now, it's one thing, like you said, to make peace, but to go full blown normalization with Israel and sign these accords, that would make some serious history.
DETROW: Can you step back and remind us of what the Abraham Accords are?
AL-SHALCHI: Sure. So the Abraham Accords are these bilateral agreements normalizing relations between Arab countries and Israel, and they're all mediated by the United States. So far, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco have all signed the agreements, and Saudi Arabia is close to being the fifth. Under the agreement, they all recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. There are diplomatic ties, flights between the countries and, of course, these major business deals.
DETROW: How likely do you think this is to happen? What needs to happen between now and these big steps, given the long history between Syria and Israel?
AL-SHALCHI: Yeah. I mean, all of this is really just talk right now. It's remarkable talk, but it's talk. You know, and if it was going to happen, Syria would have conditions first. You know, a big one is for Israel to retreat from Syrian land. They'll also want to discuss Gaza and the possibility of a Palestinian state. Abdullah Al-Ghadawi is a Syrian analyst and journalist. He says, at least the political will for Syria to sign the Abraham Accords is there.
ABDULLAH AL-GHADAWI: (Speaking Arabic).
AL-SHALCHI: So Ghadawi says, first, Syria has to prove itself and create the stable economy, then the government can move forward with such a monumental move like normalizing ties with Israel. So if this is going to happen, it's going to take a long time.
DETROW: I mean, Israel, it seems like, would really benefit from this. Is the country saying it's on board?
AL-SHALCHI: Well, on peace with Syria, officially, there's no comment yet from Israel, but Sharaa did confirm that there have been indirect, mediated talks with Israel recently to discuss security. You know, there are members in the Israeli cabinet who still see Sharaa as a terrorist, but there are others who are being more pragmatic. You know, they say, we're entering this new era of the Middle East - you know, Saudi Arabia possibly normalizing with Israel, the fall of the Assad regime. So - and they also lately have been feeling like they've been sidelined by Trump, and they want back in, and so many say that this could be a way to do that.
Also, peace between the two countries would mean Israel could secure its border against a once-sworn enemy and perhaps avoid another attack on its land, like on October 7, 2023. It would also mean that the route of weapons from Iran to Hezbollah through Syria would be cut off.
DETROW: I mean, that would be quite a different Middle East. Is it fair to say that this meeting between Trump and Sharaa kickstarted all of this?
AL-SHALCHI: Mm-hmm. I mean, look, there are all these lucrative deals, weapon sales and contracts, but, you know, for Trump, it's also about his legacy. I spoke to Middle East scholar Thomas Warrick from the Atlantic Council in Washington, D.C., and he said, all of this was very much on Trump's mind.
THOMAS WARRICK: The leaders who made peace between Israel and Egypt won the Nobel Prize. Everyone realizes the Nobel Committee would undoubtedly recognize the leaders who made peace between Israel and Syria. So this is very much in the cards.
AL-SHALCHI: So look, yes, it's all talk right now. But Trump has long been obsessed with winning this Nobel Prize. You know, he even brought it up last February when he told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the Oval Office that he deserved it.
DETROW: I feel like I remember during one of his campaigns, crowds chanting Nobel, Nobel during his rallies.
AL-SHALCHI: Exactly.
DETROW: It's been something that's long in his mind.
AL-SHALCHI: He really wants it.
DETROW: That was NPR's Hadeel Al-Shalchi in Tel Aviv. Thank you so much.
AL-SHALCHI: You're welcome.
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